if obama, president obama and boehner cannot come up with a plan the past two years, you have senators, a gang of six actually working on a plan b. so if boehner and obama can't come up with something that can go through the house you have a bipartisan group of senators working together, even bob corker from tennessee is working on a bill that will help simplify the code. if plan a doesn't work, plan b will work because at the end. day the american people have spoken, they kept the senate the same, the house virtually the same and the same president, so they're giving them a second chance to actually have our system work. and if working a bipartisan way, it will work. >> jamie: doug, the president, having not submitted a budget that passed in the first four years, at this point are there numbers out there that anybody has seen that proves that the tax increases and the spending cuts will avert a fiscal cliff? >> well, i think the immediate challenge is to avoid what's been called sequestration which is the process in place when they did the debt ceiling deal over a year ago. so, i thin